Rise: Hope and Healing Podcast

After sexual betrayal, one of the most painful questions can become: Should I stay, or should I leave?
What if there is no obvious right answer?
And when divorce enters the conversation, the decision can feel overwhelming. Children, finances, family, faith, fear, hope, anger, trauma, and the possibility of your partner changing can all pull you in different directions.
In this episode of Rise: Hope and Healing After Sexual Betrayal, MaryAnn Michaelis, LCSW, CSAT, CPTT,  and Dr. Kevin Skinner, LMFT, CSAT-S, CPTT-S, take a compassionate, honest look at divorce after sexual betrayal—and how to make an informed decision about whether leaving is right for you.
They explore why this decision is rarely as simple as “stay” or “go,” and why no one else can make it for you.
In this episode, you’ll hear about:
Why sexual betrayal and infidelity are significant factors in many divorces
The unique experience of being betrayed and divorced—and the gaps in support for this population
Why deciding whether to leave may be one of the most difficult decisions you ever make
How friends, family, religious leaders, and even therapists can unintentionally influence your decision
The difference between getting support and being told what you “should” do
Why it is important to gather multiple data points before making a life-changing decision
How children, finances, family systems, and the long-term impact of divorce complicate the decision
The difference between hope, apathy, numbness, and feeling like the “light has gone out”
Why watching your partner’s actions—not just their words—matters when evaluating recovery
How boundaries can help you step out of helplessness and begin making decisions from a stronger place
Why some people choose to stay while others choose divorce—and why neither decision should automatically be judged
The importance of self-compassion when looking back at the choices you made at different points in your healing
What support can look like during and after divorce
The impact of divorce on children and family relationships across generations
Why healing doesn't end when the divorce is final
The importance of rebuilding your identity and remembering that your worth is not defined by whether you stay or leave
When you’re stuck between staying and leaving
One of the most powerful themes in this conversation is that you don't have to make your decision based solely on someone else's opinion.
You may have people telling you to leave.
You may have people telling you to stay.
You may have a partner who promises to change.
You may have children who make the decision feel impossible.
You may have financial concerns that make leaving feel terrifying.
And you may simply not know.
Dr. Skinner emphasizes the importance of gathering information, seeking support, and paying attention to what is actually happening—not just what you hope will happen.
Because ultimately, this is your life, your relationship, and your decision.
If you're considering divorce after infidelity or sexual betrayal
This episode is for you if you've found yourself asking:
“Should I stay?”
“Should I leave?”
“Can I trust that my partner is really changing?”
“What if I regret leaving?”
“What if I regret staying?”
“How do I know I'm making the right decision?”
There may not be an easy answer. But there can be a more informed one.
And wherever you are in that process, you deserve support—not judgment.
Remember
Whether you stay or leave, your worth does not change.
Sexual betrayal may profoundly affect your relationship, your sense of safety, your identity, and your future—but it does not define your value as a person.
You don't have to have everything figured out today.
You can gather information. You can seek support. You can listen to yourself. And you can make the decision that is right for you.
Related Resources
Rebuild Your Life After Divorce - Online Course with Personalized Feedback and Assessments
For additional support during the process of divorce and recovery, visit HumanIntimacy.com to access the Rise Hope and Healing After Sexual Betrayal Course, our Course on Boundaries, Communication, and resources to help repair and enhance your relationship.
If you are newly discovering sexual betrayal, be sure to explore Season 1 of Rise: Hope and Healing After Sexual Betrayal, created specifically for those early days and weeks after discovery. 
If this episode resonates with you, please share it with someone who may be walking through sexual betrayal or considering divorce. No one should have to walk this path alone.

Can trust really be rebuilt after sexual betrayal?
When you've been betrayed, everyone seems to have an opinion. Some people tell you to leave immediately. Others encourage you to forgive and move on. But the question that often gets overlooked is this:
What does real recovery actually look like?
Before you decide whether to stay in your relationship, it's essential to know what you're looking for.
In Part 3 of this series, MaryAnn Michaelis, LCSW, CSAT, CPTT, and Kris Cristiano, LCSW, CSAT,  unpack the characteristics of authentic recovery—not the kind that is fueled by guilt, fear of consequences, or a desperate attempt to save a relationship, but the kind that reflects genuine transformation from the inside out.
Recovery is more than attending therapy, joining a support group, or saying the right words. It is a gradual process of becoming emotionally mature, learning to regulate emotions instead of escaping them, embracing humility over defensiveness, choosing transparency over secrecy, and developing the capacity to create emotional safety for the person you've hurt.
Whether you're asking, "Can my relationship heal?" or "How do I know if my partner is really changing?" this episode will help you move beyond hope alone and begin looking for evidence of lasting change.
In This Episode You'll Learn
Why no therapist, family member, or friend can tell you whether you should stay or leave
The difference between genuine recovery and performative recovery
Why humility—not shame—is one of the strongest predictors of long-term healing
What emotional maturity actually looks like after betrayal
How emotional regulation creates the foundation for rebuilding trust
Why transparency and honesty reduce shame and increase safety
The role of community, accountability, sponsors, therapy, and healthy support systems in lasting recovery
How to recognize when recovery is driven by validation instead of transformation
Red flags that suggest someone is managing appearances instead of doing the deeper work
Why listening to your intuition is an important part of the healing process
The Heart of This Conversation
One apology doesn't rebuild trust.
Neither does perfect attendance at therapy, saying all the right things, or simply avoiding old behaviors.
Lasting recovery is revealed through consistent patterns of humility, accountability, emotional growth, and a willingness to remain teachable. It's seen in how someone responds when they're uncomfortable, how they handle feedback, how they regulate difficult emotions, and whether they continue choosing honesty even when it's costly.
Healing isn't about waiting for perfection.
It's about learning to recognize genuine transformation.
This Episode Is Part 3 of Our Series
Part 1: The Battle of Finding Yourself After Betrayal: Why Healing Isn't Always About Leaving
Part 2: Considering Leaving a Relationship After Sexual Betrayal: How to Decide
Part 3: Signs of Recovery: What to Look for Before You Decide to Stay
If you've been wrestling with whether your relationship can survive sexual betrayal, this three-part series will help you move from fear to clarity—first by reclaiming yourself, then by learning how to make wise decisions, and finally by recognizing the signs that real healing is, or isn't, taking place.
Because the decision to stay shouldn't be based on promises. It should be based on patterns.
 

The Battle of Finding Yourself After Betrayal: Why Healing Isn't Always About Leaving
How do you know when it's time to leave a relationship after sexual betrayal? It may seem like the most important question—but what if it's not the first one you need to answer?
In Part 2 of this conversation, MaryAnn Michaelis, LCSW, CSAT, CPTT, and Dr. Karen Strange, LMFT, CSAT, CPTT explore the deeper battle many betrayed partners face: the struggle to find themselves again after betrayal. While it's natural to become consumed with deciding whether to stay or leave, true healing often begins by reclaiming your identity, your voice, and your sense of worth—regardless of what happens to the relationship.
Drawing from Michelle Mays' powerful reflections in her book, "The Betrayal Bind," MaryAnn and Karen discuss how betrayal trauma can leave you feeling disconnected from yourself, caught in self-doubt, and trapped by old beliefs about your value. They explore why healing isn't about fixing your partner or earning a particular outcome, but about untangling yourself from the lies betrayal has reinforced and becoming whole again.
Whether your relationship survives or ends, the journey of recovery is ultimately about rescuing yourself.
In This Episode
Why deciding whether to stay or leave is rarely the first step in healing.
The hidden battle many betrayed partners wage within themselves.
How betrayal trauma can lead to self-abandonment and loss of identity.
Why you can't control your partner's choices—but you can reclaim your own life.
Michelle Mays' powerful perspective on rescuing yourself from the lies you've believed.
How healing old attachment wounds helps you make decisions from clarity rather than fear.
Why becoming whole matters whether your relationship is restored or not.
Finding hope, peace, and a stronger sense of self after betrayal.
Key Takeaway
The greatest healing after betrayal isn't always found in leaving—or staying. It's found in becoming the kind of person who no longer has to abandon themselves to keep a relationship. When you reclaim your identity, your worth, and your voice, you're finally able to make decisions from a place of truth instead of fear.
If you're struggling to decide whether to stay or leave after sexual betrayal, remember this: before you can know what's right for your relationship, you deserve the opportunity to rediscover the person who gets to make that decision.
Resources Mentioned
"The Betrayal Bind" by Michelle Mays
Connect with Us
If this episode encouraged you, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who may need hope today. Your support helps us reach more individuals navigating the pain of betrayal trauma and searching for healing.

Considering Leaving a Relationship After Sexual Betrayal? How to Decide
One of the most painful questions after discovering sexual betrayal is:
"Do I stay, or is it time to leave?"
If you're considering ending your relationship after infidelity, pornography addiction, or another form of sexual betrayal, you're not alone—and you don't have to rush your decision.
In this episode, betrayal trauma therapists MaryAnn Michaelis, LCSW, CSAT, CPTT, and Dr. Karen Strange, LMFT, CSAT, CPTT, explore how to thoughtfully navigate one of the hardest decisions you'll ever face. Rather than telling you what to do, they discuss the questions, relationship patterns, and signs to evaluate so you can make a decision that aligns with your values, safety, and long-term healing.
You'll learn why emotional clarity often comes after your nervous system begins to heal, how therapeutic separation can create space for discernment, and what healthy relationships have in common when genuine repair is possible.
Whether you're newly navigating discovery or have been wrestling with this decision for months—or even years—this conversation offers compassionate guidance without pressure or judgment.
In This Episode
Why you don't have to decide immediately after discovering betrayal
The difference between therapeutic separation and divorce
How betrayal trauma affects decision-making and emotional clarity
Why patterns of behavior matter more than promises or apologies
The importance of safety, respect, honesty, and accountability
How healthy boundaries reveal the health of a relationship
Questions to ask when evaluating whether your relationship can heal
The role of hope, genuine recovery, and consistent change
Common fears that make leaving feel impossible, including finances, children, faith, and starting over
How to make a decision you can live with—without regret
Key Takeaways
Give yourself permission to slow down before making permanent decisions whenever safety allows.
Look for consistent actions, not just sincere words.
A healthy relationship is built on respect, emotional and physical safety, honesty, friendship, and mutual effort.
Healing your nervous system often brings the clarity that trauma initially obscures.
No one can decide for you—but you can learn what to look for as you discern your next steps.
Resources Mentioned
Should I Stay or Should I Go? by Lundy Bancroft
Gottman's Four Horsemen of Relationship Breakdown
Human Intimacy recovery resources
Connect
If you're healing from sexual betrayal and looking for additional support, visit HumanIntimacy.com for courses, resources, and educational content designed to help individuals and couples navigate recovery.

Can a relationship truly heal after sexual betrayal?
After nearly 20 years of helping couples recover from betrayal trauma, renowned therapist, author, and creator of the Early Recovery Couples Empathy Model (ERCEM), Carol Juergensen Sheets, LCSW, CSAT-S, CCPS, joins MaryAnn Michaelis, LCSW, CSAT, CPTT to answer one of the most difficult questions couples face: What does real healing actually require?
In this powerful conversation, Carol shares the lessons she's learned from working with thousands of individuals and couples navigating sexual addiction, infidelity, pornography addiction, and betrayal trauma. She explains why healing isn't about "getting back to normal," but about creating something stronger through safety, empathy, grief work, and intentional recovery.
You'll also learn why grief is often the missing piece in betrayal recovery, why trust takes years—not months—to rebuild, and what healthy recovery actually sounds like.
Whether you're a betrayed partner, someone in recovery seeking to rebuild trust, or a therapist working with couples, this episode offers practical guidance, realistic hope, and a clear roadmap for lasting healing.
In This Episode
Why betrayal trauma is one of the most devastating relational injuries a person can experience
The three phases of the ERCEM (Early Recovery Couples Empathy Model)
Why emotional safety must come before attachment repair
The essential role of grief in healing after sexual betrayal
What genuine empathy looks like—and sounds like—from the offending partner
Why recovery is rarely linear and how to navigate setbacks
How full disclosure, restitution, and consistent actions rebuild trust
Why lasting recovery typically unfolds over three to five years
The difference between CSAT, CPTT, and APSATS-trained professionals
How couples can experience post-traumatic growth and create a healthier relationship than before
Key Takeaways
Healing begins with safety—not forgiveness.
Grief isn't a setback; it's a necessary part of recovery.
Trust is rebuilt through consistent empathy and accountability.
Healthy recovery creates a new relationship rather than restoring the old one.
Recovery takes time, but lasting healing is possible.
Resources Mentioned
Help Her Heal by Carol Juergensen Sheets
Help Them Heal by Carol Juergensen Sheets
ERCEM (Early Recovery Couples Empathy Model)
APSATS (Association of Partners of Sex Addicts Trauma Specialists)
IITAP (International Institute for Trauma and Addiction Professionals)
Carol's website: Sex Help with Carol the Coach
Grief After Betrayal Impact Survey
HumanIntimacy.com
About the Guest
Carol is a licensed social worker and personal life coach. She is a Certified Sexual Addictions Therapist –Supervisor and a Certified Clinical Partner Specialist for and a faculty member of both trainingorganizations. She was a lead trainer for APSATS on the Multidimensional Trauma Model educatingprofessionals about trauma & partner betrayal.She has developed a training and certification Program: ERCEM--The Early Recovery Couples EmpathyModel for professionals to help couples heal. She has trained over 250 professionals worldwide on theERCEM Model and is currently training all over the world.Carol started the first podcast on Sexual Addiction in 2007 and started the APSATS podcast specificallyon partner betrayal.Carol’s books include Help. Her. Heal. An Empathy Workbook for Sex Addicts to Help Their Partners Heal,Unleashing Your Power: Moving Beyond Sexual Betrayal, Help. Them. Heal Teaching You Both How toNavigate Your Relationship After Sexual Betrayal. Her new book, Helping Couples Heal After Infidelityand Find Love Again teaches ERCEM skills to help couples build a new relationship that has honesty andtruth as its foundation.Her workshops, trainings have changed the world of problematic sexual behavior and partner betrayalhave changed how professionals work in this specialized niche.
If you'd like more resources for healing please visit humanintimacy.com to access our online companion courses focused on betrayal trauma, boundaries, communication, and sex addiction recovery. 
Contact us at info@humanintimacy.com with questions or podcast topics you would like us to address.
 
 

When betrayal shatters your reality, it's natural to look outward for safety. But safety can be difficult to find when you feel disconnected from yourself, questioning your instincts, doubting your reality, and struggling to regulate overwhelming emotions.
What if healing begins by learning to trust yourself again?
Healing doesn't begin by controlling your emotions—it begins by changing your relationship with them.
In this episode of Rise: Hope and Healing After Sexual Betrayal, host MaryAnn Michaelis, LICSW, CSAT, CPTT, welcomes mindfulness expert and therapist Dallin Bruun, AMFT, MBSR, for an inspiring conversation about using mindfulness to recover from betrayal trauma.
Together they explore why mindfulness isn't simply meditation—it's learning to meet your pain with curiosity, compassion, and presence instead of fear or avoidance. Dallin explains how betrayal activates survival responses like fight, flight, and dissociation, and how mindfulness gently teaches the nervous system that safety can begin from within.
You'll also hear practical ways to begin reconnecting with yourself through breath, body awareness, self-compassion, and simple grounding practices that anyone can begin today.
Whether you're newly navigating discovery or further along your healing journey, this episode offers hope that trusting yourself again is possible.
In This Episode You'll Learn
Why betrayal trauma disrupts self-trust
The difference between reacting and responding
How mindfulness calms the nervous system
Why your body holds emotional pain
How self-compassion helps heal betrayal trauma
Practical mindfulness exercises for emotional regulation
Why awareness—not fixing—is often the beginning of healing
How to reconnect with your intuition after gaslighting
Gentle grounding techniques you can practice today
Why healing starts with your relationship to yourself
Memorable Quote
"You can become the source of the safety, compassion, and trust you've been searching for."
Resources Mentioned
Tara Brach and the RAIN meditation practice
Kristin Neff's Mindful Self-Compassion practices
Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction (MBSR)
Mindful Self-Compassion (MSC) courses
Somatic approaches for trauma healing
Connect with MaryAnn and the Human Intimacy Team
If this episode encouraged you, subscribe to Rise: Hope and Healing After Sexual Betrayal, leave a review, and share this episode with someone navigating betrayal trauma.
For additional resources, courses, and support for betrayal trauma recovery, visit www.humanintimacy.com. If there's a topic you would like us to address, or you would like to share comments, questions or concerns, please send an email to: maryann@humanintimacy.com

How do you know when you are ready for couples therapy after betrayal? An Attachment-Based Conversation with Dan Oakes
Healing after betrayal isn't simply about stopping unwanted behaviors—it's about rebuilding safety, restoring attachment, and learning an entirely new way of relating.
In this episode, MaryAnn Michaelis, LCSW, CSAT, CPTT, sits down with Dan Oakes, LPC, CSAT, and Certified Sex Offender Treatment Specialist, founder of the Arizona Family Institute, for a thoughtful conversation on what true recovery looks like after sexual betrayal. Through the lens of attachment theory, Dan explains why compulsive sexual behaviors are best understood as disruptions in the attachment system, why couples counseling should never begin too early, and how both partners can begin rebuilding trust.
Together they explore why healing isn't about "getting over it," but about creating a relationship where fear can be spoken, received, and soothed.
In This Episode You'll Learn
When couples counseling is appropriate—and when it's too soon
The essential conditions that create emotional safety before relationship repair can begin
Why betrayed partners often experience fearful-avoidant attachment after discovery
How betrayal trauma affects the nervous system long after disclosure
Why honesty and transparency matter more than perfection
The difference between traditional couples therapy and betrayal-informed couples therapy
Why healing requires learning entirely new emotional skills
How therapists help couples create corrective emotional experiences that rebuild secure attachment
Why recovery isn't about eliminating fear—but learning how to respond to it together
Key Takeaways
Recovery Is About More Than Stopping Behaviors
Dan explains that compulsive sexual behaviors are often attempts to regulate distress through artificial sources of dopamine rather than healthy human connection. Lasting recovery requires rebuilding the attachment system—not simply relying on willpower.
Couples Therapy Requires Readiness
Healing together begins only after meaningful safety has been established. This includes honesty, accountability, stabilization of compulsive behaviors, and the betrayed partner feeling ready to begin reconnecting.
Betrayal Changes the Attachment System
After betrayal, many partners experience fearful-avoidant attachment. They deeply desire closeness while simultaneously experiencing intense fear and nervous system activation around the very person they love.
The Nervous System Is Protecting, Not Failing
Hypervigilance, intrusive thoughts, sleep disruption, emotional flooding, and avoidance are not signs of weakness—they are adaptive responses designed to keep someone safe after profound relational injury.
The Most Powerful Skill in Healing
One of Dan's most memorable insights is that long-term healing depends on creating conditions where the betrayed partner feels safe enough to express fear—and where the offending partner actively seeks out that fear with curiosity, compassion, and accountability rather than defensiveness.
Recovery Is a Lifelong Practice
The goal isn't reaching a point where betrayal is never discussed again. Instead, healthy relationships become places where fears, insecurities, and emotional needs can always be expressed and lovingly received.
Memorable Quotes
"Secure attachment isn't the absence of fear. It's knowing that when fear shows up, someone will respond."
"Healing isn't about never talking about betrayal again. It's about creating a relationship where you always can."
"Recovery isn't just solving a problem. It's learning how to build a life together."
About Dan Oakes
Dan Oakes is a Licensed Professional Counselor, Certified Sex Addiction Therapist (CSAT), and Certified Sex Offender Treatment Specialist. He is the founder and Clinical Director of the Arizona Family Institute in Mesa, Arizona, where he specializes in attachment-based treatment for betrayal trauma, compulsive sexual behaviors, couples healing, and family therapy.
Resources Mentioned
Arizona Family Institute
SHIFT Men's Intensive
If this episode encouraged you, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone navigating healing after betrayal.
For individual and couple online resources, courses, and support, visit www.humanintimacy.com

Financial infidelity is a hidden but powerful dimension of betrayal that can significantly intensify the emotional, relational, and financial impact of sexual betrayal. Drawing on her unique background in both Wall Street finance and clinical therapy, guest Debra L. Kaplan, MA, MBA, LPC, PACT-II, CSAT-S joins MaryAnn Michaelis, LCSW, CSAT, CPTT as they explore the often overlooked intersection of financial infidelity and sexual betrayal. This episode sheds light on the profound impacts of financial secrecy, hidden accounts, debt accumulation, and violations of agreed-upon financial boundaries on betrayed partners. 
Together, they examine how financial betrayal impacts not only trust and emotional safety, but also financial security, stability, and long-term planning, often leaving betrayed partners overwhelmed and unsure of where to begin.
This episode also offers practical, grounded guidance for early discovery—how to begin identifying financial information, what steps to take first, and how to rebuild both emotional and financial self-trust after betrayal.
Key Topics Covered
Financial Infidelity and Sexual Betrayal Trauma
How financial infidelity often co-occurs with sexual betrayal, creating compounded trauma and a deeper sense of destabilization.
Why Financial Betrayal Feels So Destabilizing
The impact of financial infidelity on safety, security, housing stability, and long-term financial planning.
The Spectrum of Financial Infidelity
From small undisclosed purchases to major financial abuse including hidden accounts, debt accumulation, and misuse of shared assets.
Financial Secrecy vs Financial Privacy
Understanding the difference between healthy financial autonomy and harmful secrecy within relationships.
Financial Abuse and Control Dynamics
How financial abuse may involve restricting access to funds, manipulating accounts, or covertly shifting financial responsibility or debt.
First Steps After Discovery
Practical initial steps for betrayed partners including accessing bank records, gathering financial documentation, and seeking legal or financial consultation when appropriate.
Rebuilding Financial Self-Trust
How individuals begin restoring confidence, agency, and clarity after financial betrayal and relational destabilization.
About the Guest
Debra L. Kaplan, MA, MBA, LPC, PACT-II, CSAT-S, is an author, speaker, and licensed therapist specializing in sexual addiction/compulsivity, sexual and financial infidelity, and relational trauma.
After a career on Wall Street, Ms. Kaplan transitioned into psychology, integrating her financial expertise with clinical practice. She is the author of:
For Love and Money: Exploring Sexual & Financial Betrayal in Relationships
Battle of the Titans: Mastering the Forces of Sex, Money, and Power in Relationships
Coupleship Inc: From Financial Conflict to Financial Intimacy (Lead Author)
She facilitates workshops, trainings, and intensives focused on emotional, sexual, and financial intimacy, helping clients and couples rebuild trust after betrayal.
Contact Information (Guest)
Debra L. Kaplan (she/her/hers)MA, MBA, LPC, PACT-II, CSAT-S✉️ info@debrakaplancounseling.com🌐 www.debrakaplancounseling.com
About the Host
MaryAnn Michaelis, LCSW, CSAT, CPTT is the host of Rise: Hope and Healing After Sexual Betrayal. She specializes in betrayal trauma, sexual addiction recovery, and relational healing using trauma-informed, attachment-based approaches to support individuals and couples rebuilding trust after betrayal.

In this episode of Rise, MaryAnn Michaelis sits down with Michelle Mays for a deeply grounded conversation on BRAVING, attachment injury, identity, belonging, self-trust, and the Betrayal Bind.
Michelle Mays is a licensed clinician, betrayal trauma specialist, and the creator of the BRAVING Hope® framework, an attachment-based model for healing after sexual betrayal and relational trauma. Her work helps individuals and couples understand how betrayal impacts the nervous system, attachment systems, identity, and the capacity for self-trust.
Together, MaryAnn and Michelle explore how betrayal disrupts not only relationships, but also internal identity structures, emotional safety, and the sense of belonging to self and others. They discuss how the nervous system organizes around attachment injury and why healing requires both relational understanding and internal reconnection.
This conversation draws from Michelle’s clinical work, her Braving Hope® immersive program and training model, and her book The Betrayal Bind: How to Heal When the Person You Love the Most Hurts You the Worst, which offers an attachment-based framework for understanding betrayal trauma and the path toward recovery.
In this episode, we explore:
The BRAVING framework and what it reveals about attachment injury
Why betrayal trauma disrupts identity and nervous system regulation
The concept of the Betrayal Bind and the “impossible relational dilemma” it creates
How self-trust is fractured in betrayal—and how it is rebuilt over time
Why belonging becomes unstable after relational rupture
The role of attachment systems in trauma responses and healing
How Michelle’s Braving Hope® program supports structured recovery
Clinical insights from The Betrayal Bind and real-world healing pathways
Key themes:
Attachment trauma • Betrayal trauma • Identity reconstruction • Nervous system regulation • Self-trust • Belonging • BRAVING Hope® framework • The Betrayal Bind • Emotional safety • Relational healing
About Michelle Mays
Michelle Mays, LPC, CSAT-S, is a clinician, educator, and author specializing in betrayal trauma and attachment injury. She is the creator of the BRAVING Hope® treatment model and immersive program, and the author of The Betrayal Bind: How to Heal When the Person You Love the Most Hurts You the Worst.
Her work integrates attachment theory, nervous system science, and clinical experience to help individuals rebuild safety, identity, and self-trust after betrayal.
Learn more about her work, programs, and resources at: michellemays.com
About the Host
MaryAnn Michaelis, LCSW, CSAT, CPTT, is a licensed clinical social worker and trauma therapist specializing in betrayal trauma, sexual addiction, and attachment injury. She is the founder of the HART Recovery Institute and host of Rise: Hope and Healing After Sexual Betrayal, where she explores the lived experience of betrayal trauma and the process of rebuilding identity, self-trust, and relational safety.
Her clinical work integrates attachment theory, nervous system science, EMDR, and trauma-informed approaches to support individuals and couples in deep relational healing.
About The Betrayal Bind
The Betrayal Bind is Michelle Mays’ foundational book on betrayal trauma and attachment injury. It explores the relational paradox at the heart of betrayal: when the person you depend on for safety is also the source of harm. The book offers an attachment-based framework for understanding trauma responses and provides a pathway toward rebuilding self-trust, emotional regulation, and relational clarity.
About BRAVING Hope®
The Braving Hope® immersive experience is Michelle Mays’ signature program for betrayed partners. It provides structured education and experiential work focused on attachment healing, nervous system regulation, and identity restoration after betrayal trauma.
About Rise
Rise is a podcast exploring betrayal trauma, attachment injury, and the process of rebuilding identity, self-trust, and connection after relational rupture.
Season 2, Episode 23

After discovery or disclosure, many betrayed partners find themselves searching for answers. They read books, listen to podcasts, join support groups, and begin learning about betrayal trauma. Yet even with all of that information, many continue to feel overwhelmed, disconnected, and deeply wounded.
In this episode of Rise, MaryAnn Michaelis, LCSW, CSAT, CPTT, and Dr. Karen Strange, LMFT, CSAT, CPTT, explore the deeper work of betrayal trauma recovery. They discuss how betrayal impacts identity, confidence, self-worth, and attachment, and why healing often requires more than simply understanding what happened.
Together, they explore the connection between present pain and earlier life wounds, the role of support groups and therapy, the challenge of integrating head knowledge into heart healing, and the surprising growth that can emerge through recovery.
If you have ever wondered why betrayal feels so devastating—or why healing takes more than time—this conversation offers insight, validation, and hope.
In This Episode
Why Betrayal Trauma Impacts Identity
Betrayal often causes people to question who they are. Many betrayed partners experience significant drops in:
Confidence
Self-worth
Self-trust
Sense of identity
Feelings of attractiveness and value
MaryAnn and Karen discuss how betrayal can trigger long-standing insecurities and attachment wounds that may have originated years before the relationship.
Understanding Core Beliefs After Betrayal
Many betrayed partners find themselves asking:
Was I not enough?
Am I too much?
If I were different, would this have happened?
The episode explores how betrayal can activate deeply rooted beliefs formed in childhood, adolescence, or previous relationships, and why identifying those beliefs is a critical part of healing.
The Disconnect Between What We Know and What We Feel
Many individuals understand intellectually that the betrayal was not caused by their shortcomings. Yet emotionally, they continue to feel defective, unwanted, or unworthy.
MaryAnn and Karen discuss:
The gap between head knowledge and emotional healing
Why insight alone does not resolve trauma
How therapy can help uncover the roots of persistent self-doubt
The process of transforming beliefs at a deeper level
Healing Attachment Wounds and Past Trauma
When Betrayal Reopens Old Wounds
One of the most powerful aspects of betrayal trauma is its ability to expose unresolved emotional injuries.
The pain of betrayal can reactivate experiences from:
Childhood
Family relationships
School experiences
Previous romantic relationships
Earlier attachment injuries
While painful, this process can reveal areas that need healing and provide an opportunity for profound personal growth.
Trauma-Focused Therapies That May Help
Karen discusses the value of working with trained professionals who understand betrayal trauma and attachment injuries.
Approaches may include:
EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing)
Accelerated Resolution Therapy (ART)
Attachment-focused therapy
Trauma-informed counseling
The Importance of Support in Betrayal Trauma Recovery
We Are Wounded in Relationship and Healed in Relationship
Healing rarely happens in isolation.
Karen emphasizes the importance of:
Betrayal trauma support groups
Trusted friendships
Recovery communities
Healthy therapeutic relationships
Supportive relationships can help challenge distorted beliefs and provide encouragement during the healing process.
Why Community Matters
Many betrayed partners believe they are alone in their experience.
In reality, countless others are navigating similar challenges.
Being surrounded by people who understand can:
Reduce shame
Increase hope
Provide validation
Create opportunities for growth
Strengthen resilience
Learning to Trust Yourself Again
One of the most painful consequences of betrayal is the loss of self-trust.
Many partners spent years sensing that something was wrong only to be dismissed, denied, or manipulated.
MaryAnn and Karen discuss:
Rebuilding confidence in your intuition
Giving yourself the benefit of the doubt
Learning to trust your perceptions again
Strengthening self-awareness and personal boundaries
The Role of Self-Care in Recovery
A powerful moment in the conversation centers on a simple question:
"Who's taking care of you?"
For many betrayed partners, self-care has been replaced by caretaking, busyness, and survival.
The episode explores:
Why self-care is often neglected
How busyness can become a coping strategy
The importance of addressing your own needs
Creating space for healing and personal growth
Growth, Healing, and Hope After Betrayal
While no one would choose the pain of betrayal, many people discover unexpected growth through the recovery process.
Healing can lead to:
Greater self-awareness
Stronger boundaries
Increased self-trust
Deeper emotional resilience
A clearer sense of identity and purpose
Recovery is difficult work, but it can also become a pathway to becoming more grounded, authentic, and connected to yourself.
Key Takeaways
Betrayal trauma affects much more than the relationship.
It can impact identity, confidence, attachment, and self-worth.
Healing requires more than information.
Understanding betrayal trauma is important, but lasting recovery involves deeper emotional work.
Support matters.
Therapists, support groups, and trusted relationships can play a vital role in the healing process.
Self-trust can be rebuilt.
Learning to trust yourself again is one of the most important parts of recovery.
Growth is possible.
Even in profound pain, healing can lead to greater strength, clarity, and self-understanding.
Resources Mentioned
Books
The Journey from Abandonment to Healing by Susan Anderson
Therapeutic Approaches
EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing)
Accelerated Resolution Therapy (ART)
Connect With Rise
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Healing happens in connection, and no one should have to walk this journey alone.